Easy Pumpkin Snickerdoodle Bars
Turns out, pumpkin and snickerdoodles were meant to be friends! These easy pumpkin snickerdoodle bars are soft and scrumptious!
One bowl pumpkin snickerdoodle bars? Oh yes, I’m all in.
Snickerdoodles are rarely my cookie of choice, but apparently when you throw in a little pumpkin, they become irresistible to this snobby snickerdoodle palate.
These bars are so soft with an almost melt-in-your mouth perfect texture.
And thanks to a few little tweaks, they defy the ultra cakey vibe that almost always accompanies pumpkin baked goods.
Modeled after perfection
When I decided to go after a pumpkin snickerdoodle bar recipe, I had no idea it would be so hard to get just right.
I was a little embarrassed and irritated at myself when after the 5th fail, I remembered these amazing pumpkin chocolate chip cookies. Why hadn’t I started there in the first place?
(Clearly I don’t learn lessons very quickly – same thing happened with this Instant Pot recipe).
Those pumpkin cookies are best-ever because they are soft and chewy instead of cakey and fluffy, which is rare for a pumpkin baked good.
I wanted the same vibe for these pumpkin snickerdoodle bars.
No Eggs
What’s the secret? Well, the reason these bars are different from most other pumpkin bar recipes out there is because there are no eggs.
Using canned pumpkin PLUS eggs magnifies the cakey factor. Which is great when you want pumpkin cake. But not so great when you want a slightly firmer, less cakey bar cookie.
Leaving out the eggs doesn’t ruin the recipe like you might think. It actually helps us out a lot here.
And trust me, I’m grateful for this epiphany because I did not want to make these bars ten more times.
No offense, little miss pumpkin snickerdoodle bars. You’re amazing. But even amazing things can get old after a while.
Cinnamon and sugar for the win
The delectable cinnamon +sugar topping gives these bars a signature snickerdoodle vibe AND provides the most delicious, crunchy, top crust.
It definitely becomes one of the most delightful parts of these bars.
I’m a chocolate loving girl through and through, but I cannot be left alone with a pan of these bars. Simple but tasty, they tempt me beyond reason.
We managed to discover, in making these bars a million and a half times, that they are also crazy, crazy, crazy good just ever so slightly warmed up with a scoop of vanilla ice cream and butterscotch sauce.
So yes, these easy pumpkin snickerdoodle bars are perfect for making and eating out of hand, just like you would a brownie or a cookie.
But they are also moonlighting as possibly one of the best decadent fall desserts ever.
While they are fantastic basically straight from the oven, the flavor actually gets better with time, and they taste even better the next day.
FAQs for Pumpkin Snickerdoodle Blondies
I haven’t tried that myself, but several people have used a gluten free flour blend in the cookie recipe these bars were based off of with good results.
Yes, this recipe can be cut in half and baked in an 8X8-inch pan. Watch the baking time closely and check after about 17 minutes.
I’m sorry you feel this way – I hope we can still be friends! This is the best ratio I could find for the perfect texture. I suggest freezing the rest of the pumpkin in the can. It can quickly be defrosted when you need to use it and it won’t go bad languishing in the back of your refrigerator.
I haven’t tried that but you could experiment – I’d suggest only subbing in applesauce for half of the butter. I’m 99% sure it will change the texture of the bars and make them either more cakey or more dense or both.
Store them well-covered in a tight container or bag. I like to keep them in the refrigerator, but they can be stored at room temperature as well.
One Year Ago: Easy One Pot Beef and Broccoli Ramen Noodles
Two Years Ago: Thin and Chewy Toffee Bits Cookies
Three Years Ago: Pumpkin Cream Cheese Muffins
Four Years Ago: Double Chocolate Chunk Muffins
Five Years Ago: Pumpkin Oreo Cheesecake Bars
Six Years Ago: Blueberry and Almond Baked Steel Cut Oats
Seven Years Ago: White Texas Sheet Cake
Eight Years Ago: Cheesecake Rice Pudding {Plus a Chocolate Version!}
Easy Pumpkin Snickerdoodle Bars
Ingredients
- 1 cup (227 g) salted butter, softened
- 1 cup (212 g) granulated sugar
- ½ cup (106 g) lightly packed brown sugar
- 1 cup (227 g) canned pumpkin puree
- 2 tablespoons water (see note)
- 1 teaspoon vanilla extract
- 2 ½ cups (355 g) all-purpose flour
- 1 ½ teaspoons ground cinnamon
- 1 teaspoon cream of tartar
- ½ teaspoon baking powder
- ½ teaspoon baking soda
- ¼ teaspoon salt
- ¼ teaspoon ground nutmeg
- ¼ teaspoon allspice
Topping:
- ¼ cup (53 g) granulated sugar
- 1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
Instructions
- Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F. Line a metal 9X13-inch pan with foil or parchment and lightly grease with cooking spray. (Glass, ceramic or dark-coated pans may not bake as evenly, consider reducing temperature to 325 degrees.)
- In an electric mixer (handheld or stand), add the butter, granulated sugar, and brown sugar, and mix until light and fluffy, 1-2 minutes.
- Add the pumpkin, water, and vanilla extract, and mix until well combined.
- Add the flour, cinnamon, cream of tartar, baking powder, baking soda, salt, nutmeg, and allspice and mix until just combined and no dry streaks remain.
- Spread the batter evenly in the prepared pan. Mix together the cinnamon and sugar for the topping and sprinkle evenly across the top of the bars.
- Bake for 20-25 minutes until set around the edges and still soft (but not raw) in the center. Let cool completely before cutting into squares. Serve at room temp or chilled (also delicious lightly warmed with a scoop of ice cream).
Notes
Recommended Products
Recipe Source: from Mel’s Kitchen Cafe (adapted from this best-ever pumpkin cookie recipe)
122 Comments on “Easy Pumpkin Snickerdoodle Bars”
Mel, I have been a fan of your recipes for years but never commented until now. My husband hates snickerdoodle cookies and anything with pumpkin but humored me by trying these bars. He loves them! It defies all logic. You are a genius. Thank you for giving me a recipe to satisfy my fall-obsessed heart, as well as my picky husband’s taste buds!
I loved reading this – thanks, Jenna! Way to go on the pumpkin bars!
Mel, something about your flour measurement puzzles me. The recipe states 2 1/2 cups of AP flour, but across the board, almost every measurement conversion website agrees that there are 120 grams per cup of flour. Based on the 2 1/2 cup recipe, that would work out to 300 grams, not 355. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do a lot of baking, always using weight measurements rather than volume. Hence I regularly use the 120 gram per cup standard on AP flour with consistent and satisfactory results. I’m aware that different flours have different weights, cake, almond, pizza etc., but this recipe states all purpose. Just before I added my flour to this recipe a light bulb went on and I thought to myself, wait a minute this looks like too much flour. I went back and did the math and I reduce my flour measurement by 55 g. The recipe came out excellently. Not a criticism just an observation. Fill me in on the specifics if you have time. Thanks a lot, I really enjoy your website.
Hi Pete, thanks for your comment. Actually, there are many trusted sources (such as Americas Test Kitchen/Cook’s Illustrated) that use right around 140 grams per cup of flour. My standard is 142 grams of flour per cup and I test all of my recipes using that amount. The reason why is because I’m wanting recipes that are approachable to home cooks – not all home cooks have a kitchen scale. It’s nearly impossible to scoop flour into a cup at the low weight of 120 grams per cup (without taking special care to scoop lightly and level off). Most home cooks use the scoop and level method which makes for more flour per cup, hence the 142 grams of flour per cup. Either way, I highly recommend readers to use the weights in a given recipe even if personally they use a different measurement, because chances are that recipe has been tested with the weights given. It’s not recommended to change the weight measures in a recipe as it can compromise the outcome of the recipe. If the recipe came out delicious even with less flour, that means it’s a versatile recipe! 🙂 But I use the full 355 grams of flour when I make them. Thanks for the question and comment – hopefully my answer helps shed a bit of light as to why I use the weight measures I do.
Amazing Mel. So simple too. Every member of my family has commented on these bars today. My husband was referring to them as bread, I corrected him. He quickly replied with – please let me call me them bread, it makes them seem healthy that way. 🙂
These are soooooooooooo good. We had some gluten-free friends over for dinner, so I made them using Bob’s Red Mill gluten free 1-to-1 baking flour and they were perfect!!!!! If I hadn’t made them myself, I would not have even known they were gluten free. I also love the way and sugar and cinnamon formed a slightly crunchy layer on top. I will absolutely be making these again!!
I made this as written, (in grams too) with the only change using turbinado sugar in the topping. Unfortunately, it cut crumbly & stuck to the greased foil. I used my USA pan which requires no coating or lining & I should have made it that way. It tasted good but I like a lot of pumpkin flavor & should have added my homemade pumpkin pie spice, Sorry.
Hi, Mel! My family would actually love if these bars were cakey, lol. Would I just add an egg or two when I mix in the pumpkin? Thanks so much! Love your blog!
I think that would do the trick, Kristen! Either more eggs or more pumpkin (and then you might want to increase the flour just a tad).
Simple to make and delicious! I used 2 TB of pumpkin spice in the bar batter and 1 tsp in the topping. Turned out great. Oh and NO way did we get 24 servings out of this pan.
These are just plain delicious! Easy to make and well I had to taste them to make sure they were alright. They do not disappoint. Thanks for another fabulous recipe.
Thanks, Michele!
I have made this recipe as written, gluten free, and vegan using coconut oil instead of butter. I have even made this with less sugar for my daughter with Type 1 Diabetes. All of these were fabulous! I haven’t come up with a completely sugar free version that tastes good yet, but I will keep trying. Thank you, Mel, for a wonderful and easy recipe!
Made them for Thanksgiving dinner. Delicious.
Also, made them with half sugars (still plenty sweet), whole wheat flour (couldn’t tell), extra pumpkin (texture was AMAZING), and double cinnamon. I would lower the salt a bit next time, but wouldn’t touch anything else.
They were still great. Everyone wanted the recipe.
These worked great using King Arthur’s gluten free 1 to 1 flour blend. I did have to bake them for twice as long (maybe even longer) which was probably also a result of using a glass pan and, thus, cooking at 325.
Thanks, Mel!
This did not work out well for us– perhaps with more spices and baking longer so that there is a bit of a crispy edge like a regular snickerdoodle cookie? At any rate, Mel has some other great recipes that are our very favorites!– just not this one. (I hesitated to post this less than stellar review– may just be our taste. 🙂 )
I’m dying to make these tonite but I only have Self Rising Flour. Can that be used instead of plain flour and deleting some of the baking powders, etc.? Thanks so much!!
Hi Kim – I haven’t tried using self-rising flour, so I’m not entirely certain, but it’s worth a try!
Ok, I was craving something sweet and found this recipe. It’s pouring rain here and I didn’t want to go to the store. I found pumpkin pie filling so I count the spices down a bit. I got into a conversation with my husband and only ended up adding 1 1/2 cups of flour. I Am Not Going To The Store. It baked for 20 minutes before I realized my mistake . So …. Let’s go for it , I toook the half baked pumpkin goo and dropped it back in the mixer. Added that missing cup of flour and baked for another 15 minutes! It tastes fabulous. It’s not pretty ( that’s my fault) but the crunchy top got mixed in chunks in the remixed batter adding almost a cinnamon sugar chip. I wouldn’t recommend doing what I did . But if you do ….. just add remix and bake! This recipe done complete is a keeper!
I just made these today and I’m so glad I found this. My son is allergic to eggs and never seems to be able to enjoy a lot of baked goodies. He was SO excited when he found out he’d be able to eat these along with us and not only that, he loved them! We all did. Fabulous fall recipe and we’ll definitely be making these again and again. Thanks Mel!
Loved this recipe! I took the bars to a game night and all the women loved them!
Can these bars be frozen?
Yes
Hi! I can’t find any regular baking powder in my stores, only the double acting baking powder. Will that mess up the recipe, should I halve the amount…? Please help! So excited to try these.
I think that should work just fine!
I had a traditional pumpkin snickerdoodle cookie recipe that I loved, years ago. Its since gotten lost… I think this bar recipe sounds like just what I need. I’m going to try halving it first…
I’ve made a bunch of your recipes, mostly baking, but first time commenting! Anyway, I live overseas and made these for a Friendsgiving with other expat friends and they were such a hit! Perfect texture and the cinnamon topping was amazing. I did have to cover them with foil and bake an extra 10 min because they were still way underbaked at 25 min, but it all worked out. Thank you for all your amazing recipes!
So SO good!! These are amazing. And definitely better the next day!
If I’m using unsalted butter, should I increase the salt?
Yes, usually about 1/4 teaspoon for every 1/2 cup of butter.
Loved these bars!! Used fresh pumpkin and baked in a glass pan for an extra 20 min at 325. Came out perfect
No sure we’ll have any left to test out your “better-on-the-second-day” claim. You rock as always, Mel.
Thanks, Angie. 🙂
SOOO Good!!!! I added a little extra pumpkin since my can was a 12 oz one. Needed to cook closer to 40 minutes but could’ve gone more.
Highly recommend trying!!
Do you think these could be made in 10″ x 15″ jelly roll pan?
They’d be thinner, but you could try!
I’ve made these 6 times since you posted it. Each person we shared them with later asked for the recipe. Thanks for being my go-to for ALL the fantastic recipes!!
That’s amazing, Jane! I think you win for making them the most times!
So I didn’t have allspice, so instead I subbed in a 1/2 tsp of pumpkin pie spice instead of the allspice and nutmeg.
SO GOOD.
I, like you, believe desserts should be chocolate based. But this was pretty darn good, gotta admit! Ooh, that crispy top! I was surprised, even without eggs come up mine did turn out pretty fluffy, not chewy. But still very good.
I love all your recipes, mel. making this recipe stemmed from the fact that I got an instant pot, and of course had to cook a random winter squash to make puree (got it in my CSA box and thought it was a light colored pumpkin, but I guess it was just some weird squash.. so then I was left with a couple cups of puree and, lo and behold, I learned that squash can be pretty much substituted for pumpkin in this recipe! Whoo hoo!
It was delish. So two “Mel” recipes in one day. Not too shabby. I love your site! have I mentioned that before?
You’re the best, Jen! Thank you!
I’m wondering how you think these would do being baked as individual bites in a mini muffin pan? I’m wanting a small bite size finger food to take to a baby shower.
I think they would work pretty well! They probably only need 7-8 minutes baking time.
These were DELICIOUS! And you are right – on the second day and onward, they get even better! This is my new go-to Fall dessert recipe, and it was so easy to make! I also warmed them up in the microwave for a few seconds and added a scoop of vanilla ice cream…simply incredible!
There’s something about pumpkin in baked goods that make them even better the 2nd day!
These are INCREDIBLE with vanilla ice cream. Thank you, Mel!!
Thanks, Tamie!
Can I skip the cream of tartar as I just threw out an old container?Hardly ever use it. How will it change the outcome?
Just an update I my question – made these bars yesterday and subbed some white vinegar for the cream of tartar. ( could also use lemon juice but I had none). They were so good! Love how crunchy the top gets.
I’m glad they worked out. Sorry for the late reply! I was going to say you should be able to leave it out – just increase the baking powder a little bit (maybe 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon).
These are so good! I’ve made them twice this week and everyone loves them.
Warmed with ice cream=Amazing!
I love that! Glad you are loving this recipe!
I had intended to make a half batch (seemed the most reasonable for a family of four) but after accidentally adding the full amount of one ingredient, I took it as a sign from the universe that I should make a full recipe. Told my best friend I would be delivering half to her door but nope… these bars didn’t last long enough for that. They are SO GOOD. They taste like pumpkin cake donuts. Good for dessert, breakfast, with coffee, with tea, with milk, with ice cream, by the handful. Every time one of us walks by we “even out the edge a little” and now we have eaten the whole thing in 48 hours. Torn as to whether I should be responsible and make a half recipe the next time or do the delicious thing and make the full recipe.
Haha, I suppose the real lesson is to not promise to deliver baked goods until you’re at their doorstep. 🙂 I’m thrilled you guys loved these! I’d say you better just make a full batch each time. THAT is the responsible thing to do!
These are sooo good! Such an amazing fall treat! I used unsalted butter and did 1/2 teaspoon salt and they tasted great. Thanks for this delicious recipe Mel!!
Thanks, Mae!
I’m not sure there are enough words out there to adequately describe how amazing these are. And I’m a really wordy person, so I’d probably give it a good go. I’ll just say that your other recipes are consistently amazing and these are probably my new favorite. Super easy to make (with a household of 3 boys under 3) and egg free for my 2 oldest who are allergic….if I can bear to let them have any!
Also, the dough is phenomenal! With heat treated flour, I feel like this could make some sort of fun fall dip. Maybe with ginger snaps or graham crackers?
Haha, Sophia – your first line made me laugh out loud because, I, too, am wordy, and I’d be willing to give it a go, too. Oh wait, I did. In the post above. And it was probably way too wordy. Haha. I’m so, so happy you loved these! Thanks for letting me know!
Mel you bring so much joy and GOOD food to my family’s life. I subbed 1.5 tsp of lemon juice for the cream of tartar and other than that followed the recipe exactly. Amazing.
Thank you so much, Georgia!
One of my newest favorite pumpkin recipes, which says a lot because I don’t generally care for pumpkin desserts, but these bars were absolutely delicious fresh out of the oven, and again after they had cooled and I can hardly wait to have one in the morning for breakfast. I will be making these a lot this winter, thanks Mel!
Yay, Mona! Happy to know you liked these so much!
Can you make these with a boxed spice cake mix?
I do not like pumpkin flavored anything but I just made these for my family and tried them and ohhhhhh myyyyyy goshhhhh please make these they’re amazing !!!
I love how many non-pumpkin dessert fans these bars are converting!! Awesome! So glad you liked them!
These are- WERE – amazing !!! Total hit at my house !!! Topped with ice cream and sundae syrup ( we used caramel because that’s what was in the fridge) ….. next level deliciousness !!! I’m sure these will be on repeat the rest of “pumpkin spice season” and beyond !!! Another winner for sure Mel 🙂
Thanks, Helen!!
These are soft and fully pumpkin flavored. The slightly crunchy cinnamon sugar crust is the best part! I want to try making some sort of cream cheese drizzle to add. I’ve been conditioned to want pumpkin and cream cheese together haha! But they are fabulous on their own! Simple and delicious!
That is not a bad idea, not at all!
Just made these….oh.my!!!! Delish!!!!!! And yes, better after they sit for awhile. Totally a keep for sure
Yay! Thanks, Mandy!
We loved them. All five kids and hubby raved about them. My 5 yr old said they were the best thing he’s ever had.
That’s amazing, Brandy! Thanks for letting me know!
I’m planning on making these this week and was wondering if you think it will work to make them in a sheet pan? Not sure the exact size but larger than 9×13.
Thanks!
You would probably need to increase the recipe depending on the size of the pan – this amount of batter probably won’t work as well spread into a larger pan.
These were delish! I cooked mine for the full 25 minutes but I think next time i might cook them for a few minutes longer. And Mel is soooo right about them being even better on day 2! It’s like the cinnamon sugar top absorbs into the pumpkin bar and just makes it even better. You def. upped my pumpkin game this year. thank you!
I appreciate the review so much, Ashley! Thank you!
I made your pumpkin roll 2 days ago (perfection, and my family thanks you!) and was looking for a way to use the leftover canned pumpkin. This recipe fits perfectly!
Great idea, Susan!
I am going to blame it on being home with my four kids all day doing virtual school – but I made these amazing bars AND the coconut chocolate chip bars the same day you posted each recipe. I’m not sure if I should be proud or embarrassed of this fact, but I’m very grateful for two new and delicious bar recipes ;).
P.S. I made your instant pot Greek pork with flatbread, Tzatziki and fixings for dinner tonight and it’s one of our very favorites. We all love Mel!
I’m definitely in the camp of being super proud of you! Distance learning isn’t for the faint of heart. Hang in there! (And I wish I had both of these desserts AND that dinner staring me in the face today!)
My 6 year old and I made these together this afternoon and they are absolutely delicious, thank you!! I’m going to take the remaining 1/2 cup of pumpkin puree and halve the recipe so I can take a small pan of these delicious beauties over to my parents, I know they will love it too! Thank you so much for being my go-to recipe source for all things delicious 🙂
I love all these unique ideas for using up that extra little bit of pumpkin. Glad you loved these, Heather! Thank you!
Yay! I love pumpkin bars and I’m allergic to eggs. I usually try replacing them with a flax egg and it works in a lot of recipes. But I’m excited to have a recipe that is already egg-free so I know my results will be good! I can’t wait to try them!
Hope you love them, Emilee! Adding pumpkin is a great way to make them egg-free (my favorite chocolate chip pumpkin cookies are egg free, too).
Those chocolate chip pumpkin cookies are also the solution to only using half a can of pumpkin for these bars–just make both! I’m taking a meal to two different families this week so I’ll be making cookies for one and these bars for another. Everybody wins.
Everybody wins!!
We loved these bars so much we decided to make them our pumpkin dessert for Thanksgiving this year!
That’s amazing!!
The recipe was delicious. My only problem was that the cinnamon sugar topping was quite a bit for the bar. It was an easy fix and I just put less on.
Thanks for letting me know, Camila! We probably love the sugar crust a little too much. 🙂
Just made them!! My house smells amazing! I couldn’t wait for them to completely cool so I just had a piece warm and it’s delicious!! I love the cinnamon sugar topping, it really makes it perfect! Can’t wait to try them tomorrow since you say they are better the next day! Another great recipe, thank you!!
Yay, thank you!! I love it so much when you guys make recipes same day and check in to let me know. It means so much to me!
Mel, these look great! Can i use the toothpick test to test doneness? Clean? Or moist crumbs? Thanks!
And if I’m used unsalted butter, should i up salt to 1/2 tsp or 3/4?
If using unsalted butter, increase the salt by 1/4 teaspoon.
The toothpick shouldn’t come out with any wet batter. Maybe a moist crumb or too but should be mostly clean.
Cream in instructions but I don’t see in ingredient list?
There’s no cream in the recipe – I think what you are referring to is in step #2 where it says add the sugars and “cream together until light and fluffy” – the cream is referring to how to mix the batter. Sorry for the confusion.
Cream is used as a verb in the instructions. Add the ingredients and then cream for a minute or two.
I really want to make this because I LOVE Snickerdoodles and anything pumpkin. But I don’t have allspice. Can I substitute pumpkin pie spice? I know it has ginger and I dont want to mess up the recipe.
Hey Harmony, the flavor will be a bit different if using pumpkin pie spice, but will probably still be yummy!
I just increased the cinnamon since I was out of nutmeg and allspice. Turned out perfectly!
Can these be frozen?
Yes!
If I use pumpkin pie spice in the bars, would you just use 2 tsp? (The total of all the spices)
That would be a good starting place – I’d try 2 teaspoons! Good idea.
Mel – I am so grateful that you have the desire and the ability to create new recipes!! You do all the hard work, we get to enjoy the final product!! 🙂 I have never heard of a cookie bar like this and it looks delicious! I AM a snickerdoodle fan, and a pumpkin fan, so this combo is making me happy. And my eyes widened with delight when you said serving them with ice cream and butterscotch sauce took them over the top! Sounds amazing! Thank you!!
Thank you so much, Kristine! You are the sweetest!
Hi! Your recipe, step 2, says add cream with butter and sugars but no cream listed in ingredients. Was it a typo or does cream need to be included? Can’t wait to try it! Thanks!
Hey Bethany, there’s no cream in the recipe. The instructions are just stating to add the butter and sugars and cream them together. I’ll edit the instructions so it’s more clear.
Hi Mel, what is drizzled over the bars with the ice cream in the picture? That looks amazing!!
Just some basic butterscotch sauce from the grocery store. 🙂
I recently bought some quarter sized sheet pans. They are like a cookie sheet, but half the size and are 9 1/2″ by 13″. Could these bars be baked in this size of pan or do you think the bar would be too high on the sides and possibly overflow? Can’t wait to try this recipe!
How high are the sides, Amanda? If I’m thinking of the right pans, I’m afraid the batter will overflow.
They are just like a cookie sheet, I measured and the sides are 1 inch high. I can totally bake in a 9×13 pan with higher sides. I was just trying to find a use for these smaller pans
Don’t k now if this works for you, but I use those pans a lot in my Breville counter oven.
I am sooo excited to try this! My husband has an allergy to eggs and dairy. I love finding recipes he can eat or I can easily modify for him. I am going to sub in plant based butter and give this a try. Sounds so yummy. Thanks Mel.
Let me know how it goes, Tina!
Will be next on my list. I always think I don’t like snickerdoodles until I’ve eaten 5 or 6 and realize either I DO indeed like them or I have no self control around cookies of any kind.
Um, I think I 100% totally know what you mean and after doing some soul searching, I am sure I fall into the latter group.